Please VOTE - Help Establish A Digitizing Facility

A place to introduce yourself, and to meet other awesome people.

Moderator: peterZ

JohnK
Posts: 9
Joined: 04 Mar 2014, 00:53

Please VOTE - Help Establish A Digitizing Facility

Post by JohnK »

Looking for your help voting for a project to Establish a Digitizing Facility!!
Please go to: http://www.refresheverything.com/digibook, sign in and vote for this project.
You can vote once a day for all of August. Top 10 vote getters will be funded.
Your help is greatly appreciated!!
Last edited by Anonymous on 01 Oct 2010, 09:39, edited 1 time in total.
Tim

Re: Please VOTE - Help Establish A Digitizing Facility

Post by Tim »

Hate to say it, but it looks like the money is being allocated a bit frivolously. A high quality (better than the commercial scanners) can be made for less than $1000, computers can be purchased much more cheaply, and control and processing software can be free. You could make about 3 scanning stations for the price you have spec'd for one.
JohnK
Posts: 9
Joined: 04 Mar 2014, 00:53

Re: Please VOTE - Help Establish A Digitizing Facility

Post by JohnK »

Tim, I can't argue with your statement that a high quality scan system can be made for far less money than budgeted! This project's goal, however, is to establish a sustainable, state of the art facility that can start cranking out "product". Commercial equipment seemed to be the best initial option. (Lots of libraries and other well financed institutions have done it this way.) Additionally, we wanted to be able to resolve newspaper size pages at about 400dpi which results in imaging equipment that is overkill for books.

Frankly, I was surprized, amazed, outraged at the cost of commercial equipment. Sure a good camera and lens are essential and actually the key, along with good lighting, to a successful system. Why a workstation is so much I have no idea, except that the volume of production is so low that all parts are custom made.

Ultimately, I would like to see this project evolve into an easily replicated low cost system that many organizations could afford.

If you voted, thanks! I holpe this helps explain what we are trying to accomplish.
Tim

Re: Please VOTE - Help Establish A Digitizing Facility

Post by Tim »

I wouldn't argue at all against the high quality camera and lens. But people have reported that the commercial scanners aren't as high quality as you would hope for the money. Without naming names, some of the commercial book scanners are not very rigid, and don't adjust for different book spine thicknesses for starters. Given that and the cost, they don't seem to make sense.
User avatar
daniel_reetz
Posts: 2812
Joined: 03 Jun 2009, 13:56
E-book readers owned: Used to have a PRS-500
Number of books owned: 600
Country: United States
Contact:

Re: Please VOTE - Help Establish A Digitizing Facility

Post by daniel_reetz »

John, you know I support your project, but I'm sure it's clear that rallying for support to buy hugely expensive commercial book scanner on the Do It Yourself Book Scanner forum runs a bit against the grain. ;)

I fully agree with Tim, you could have two, five, or ten scanning stations for the price of that one station, even using DSLRs. I know you'd like to start producing right away, but people like Misty have been doing that with one good camera and DIY equipment, in a library setting. Bootstrapping your way to "better" equipment using what you have now is an approach that is demonstrably working for others. Food for thought!

Anyway, I know this thread is about garnering support, so my comments are mostly superfluous.
JohnK
Posts: 9
Joined: 04 Mar 2014, 00:53

Re: Please VOTE - Help Establish A Digitizing Facility

Post by JohnK »

daniel_reetz wrote:...I'm sure it's clear that rallying for support to buy hugely expensive commercial book scanner on the Do It Yourself Book Scanner forum runs a bit against the grain.
Another good point which I'm hard pressed to argue with. I do, however, appreciate the depth and breadth of knowledge and experience available at this site. Maybe I'm traveling with the wrong crowd, but, you would not believe how often I have to explain the basics of this technology. Once a light comes on, people are impressed that this is even possible. It's nice to learn from those with first hand experience!

For those that think I'm crazy to consider spending too much money on a commercial system, let's just say I'm not the first and I won't be the last. Old pricing I have seen for the Scribe Systems is in the $40K range, although those are full custom.

In the end, for those willing to vote, thanks! And, I hope, at some point, to contribute to the knowledge here.
iwenttoofast
Posts: 18
Joined: 04 Mar 2014, 00:53

Re: Please VOTE - Help Establish A Digitizing Facility

Post by iwenttoofast »

Hello:

Just thought I'd comment on this, as it's something I've investigated for awhile:

Given the pricing, my guess is that the system being considered is an ATIZ BookDrive Pro with a pair of Canon 5D Mk II 23 MP DSLRs. It's a nice rig, and definitely a lot of bang for the buck. The 5D Mk IIs have the highest technical image quality and resolution today before you move up to something in the medium format / digital back world (Phase One, Betterlight, Mamiya) where you're talking $20k+ / side just for the cameras. But the 5D Mk IIs are outstanding for book scanning. You can probably get them with the required 80mm lenses for $2,500 / side if you shop around (Amazon, Adorama, etc.).

Having said that -- ATIZ is essentially selling a book cradle, hood, lighting, and some basic capture and processing software for $14k. Obviously, it's been proven by this website that you can build / obtain all the components I just mentioned for a fraction of that. So, the question becomes:

Will the likelihood of your grant being funded increase with a cheaper, DIY solution or a more expensive, commerical solution?

Think about it. Obviously there are pros and cons to each option.

Do you really need the 5D Mk IIs? You can get a great 10 / 12MP dual camera rig for less than half the price. You're paying a premium for the 23 MP / side . . . it's the only game in town.

Also, if you're shooting lots of other stuff besides books, perhaps a dedicated V-cradle book scanner isn't the best way to go. I'd go with the DIY V-cradle book scanner, and with the money saved from the ATIZ, buy or build a copy stand on which to mount your 5D Mk II for imaging those larger flat items. Just an idea.

-- Jim
Turtle
Posts: 40
Joined: 04 Mar 2014, 00:53

Re: Please VOTE - Help Establish A Digitizing Facility

Post by Turtle »

I once had the same dream as John K - to provide people with access to otherwise inaccessible materials. I soon realized that those giving the grants have strict requirements. They require proven technology that they can see and touch. They won't allow you to go on your own unstructured path.

From my view, John is in the right crowded - the digitization tools for the humanity crowded. The tools he's using is a different, but nonetheless they function the same.

Grants comes with limitations and you have to work within their rules and schedules. I praise him for his ability to do that which I can't. Money isn't that much of an issue in his case, so asking John to be efficient can doom his project. ;)
JohnK
Posts: 9
Joined: 04 Mar 2014, 00:53

Re: Please VOTE - Help Establish A Digitizing Facility

Post by JohnK »

iwenttoofast (interesting handle) seems to have a good grasp on what I am targeting. Based on the $$ value of grant I backfilled the components for a high end system capable of handling newspapers with ~300 dpi resolution to facilitate OCR. An alternative camera I'm looking at is Canon 7D (18 MPixel; 5,184 x 3,456) which would not hit the resolution target for newspapers but would handle most other targeted documents.

My reservaton on the 7D is that its sensor is not "full frame", but, this is a relative reference for SLR cameras based on traditional 35mm film camera lenses. Best left for a new technical thread.

My past experience with grant funding is along the restrictive lines mentioned above. That said, I don't know the rules of the Pepsi grant. Based on budgets I have seen I'm thinking the restrictions are minimal within the scope to the project's goals. If this is true, I think I would have a lot of latitude on the final system components.

First, however, I have to win the grant and right now I think I need about 200-300 NEW votes per day to get to the top 10 and the funding.

Thanks for everyones help!
User avatar
Antoha-spb
Posts: 89
Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 09:54
Number of books owned: 1000
Location: Saint Petersburg
Contact:

Re: Please VOTE - Help Establish A Digitizing Facility

Post by Antoha-spb »

Hi!
I have voted for your startup as it would be great if your facility gives the clients what they need, regardless of the technologies and investments. This summer i was trying hard to find a wide scanner for lease for a week and failed to, at any price. And I also thought why not to buy one (a brand name with all warranties, of course) and give it for lease...
Good luck!
A.
Post Reply